Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

**johnnycakes** · 08-26-2008, 09:45 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

PNP or JLP, it makes so little difference that it really doesn't matter which holds power.

They are the twin parties of capitalism and nothing will change in Jamaica under capitalism and under people who, regardless of party affiliation, basically support the status quo as regards the economic set up.

Just as in the U.S., the voters in Jamaica are reshuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic that is the sinking society instead of dealing with the cause of the problems.

We want change but have been taught to fear the change we really need.

Just how long will we choose to jibber-jabber about the problems in order to avoid getting to and talking about the causes?

**Tuff Gong** · 08-26-2008, 11:02 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Jamaica sure don't need Mugabe and with the police still kicking off lawyers doors in Jamaica that is where we are headed. Bruce maybe is no fool but he his not a good leader so far!
</div></div>
Tuffy, you are right about that! but when we stop to think about it, <span style="font-weight: bold">he's the only leader we have at this moment and we have to help him along the way.</span></div></div>

Did you sign the Petition to the GOJ on crime?
How many folks signed the Petition.
I am all in favour of helping any Leader no one was interested when the PNP was in power. Some of us got shouted down, banned and talked about and disrespected when mentioned crime, corruption and human rights, Some of wanted to put pressure on the then Government in an organized and targeted fashion but could never get help.

I would expect to see more pressure on Mr. Gelding by now because his actions so far smack of incompetence or an unwillingness to take the proper corrective actions.

**Tuff Gong** · 08-26-2008, 11:03 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PNP or JLP, it makes so little difference that it really doesn't matter which holds power.

They are the twin parties of capitalism and nothing will change in Jamaica under capitalism and under people who, regardless of party affiliation, basically support the status quo as regards the economic set up.</div></div>

You are talking nonsense!

**Wahalla** · 08-27-2008, 01:32 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PNP or JLP, it makes so little difference that it really doesn't matter which holds power.

They are the twin parties of capitalism and nothing will change in Jamaica under capitalism and under people who, regardless of party affiliation, basically support the status quo as regards the economic set up.</div></div>

You are talking nonsense! </div></div>

Tuffy Tuffy Tuffy.. He is a yankee.. Dont you know once they say anything it is immidiately true ????? Such wisdom.. such passion.. us natives we are incapable of coherent thought.. Dont tell him its nonsense... The man thinks using spell check is the acme of acheivement!

Jamaicans wrote our constitution..... Something we should be proud of!

**Q3210** · 08-27-2008, 02:37 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

Oh yes? In it have you read, "To give the people justiciable rights, would derrogate the sovreignity of parliament."

I am afraid Jamaica still dwells in the age of King George.

**barosa** · 08-28-2008, 10:56 AM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yes? In it have you read, "To give the people justiciable rights, would derrogate the sovreignity of parliament."

I am afraid Jamaica still dwells in the age of King George.
</div></div>
"To Give the People Justifiable Rights" To me these words depicts what should be the goal of all modern governments, GOJ included. ~ Having said that, what is more important to the people of Jamaica that the "right to be relatively free" from the crime wave that has overwhelm us during the last 40 years?

Q, do you think that Jamaica will ever be able to reduce its level of crime to the point where we wont be labelled as #1 in the in the world as we are today?
______________________________

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

**johnnycakes** · 08-28-2008, 11:43 AM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PNP or JLP, it makes so little difference that it really doesn't matter which holds power.

They are the twin parties of capitalism and nothing will change in Jamaica under capitalism and under people who, regardless of party affiliation, basically support the status quo as regards the economic set up.</div></div>

You are talking nonsense! </div></div>

Sure Tuffy, I'M talking nonsense.

And to what to you attribute the massive murder rate, drug use, crime in general that is rampant in Jamaica and so low in democratic socialist Cuba?

It cannot be that humans are basically brutal creatures or what has happened to crime and the other illnesses of poverty in Cuba could not have happened.

Is it not poverty and despair; the feeling that nothing will change and that the future is just more of the same.

And....does not that feeling of despair flow from history, from empiric proof from the experience of the people, from voting for change time after time and seeing things not only not get better but to worsen?

Please tell me your solution to the poverty which is the source of the crime or do you contend that poverty/ the widespread feeling of no chance for better is not the reason?

**Wahalla** · 08-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yes? In it have you read, "To give the people justiciable rights, would derrogate the sovreignity of parliament."

I am afraid Jamaica still dwells in the age of King George.
</div></div>
"To Give the People Justifiable Rights" To me these words depicts what should be the goal of all modern governments, GOJ included. ~ Having said that, what is more important to the people of Jamaica that the "right to be relatively free" from the crime wave that has overwhelm us during the last 40 years?

Q, do you think that Jamaica will ever be able to reduce its level of crime to the point where we wont be labelled as #1 in the in the world as we are today?
______________________________

The more things change, the more they stay the same. </div></div>

I beleive that if the entire paragagh is quoted there would be an explantion of why it was there... I beleive it affords the parlimentarian to make statements that cannot be made else where under the law..

As for King George.. I have discovered that the Good Kings servants were the first to have an "proclamation fo emancipation in the Untied states as opposed to the revoluntionaries who's one of the principal drivers was a reaction the Lord Mansfeild ruling.. Ah the third Duke of Dunmore the first free of slaves in the United states and done in the name of a George.. not Washington but His Majesty!!!!

To answer your question.. Yes.. I beleive the Jamaican state will fail.. and Dondoms develop. within these Dondoms there will be low crime but with interdon fighting..

Jamaica is not Cuba...

**barosa** · 08-28-2008, 05:55 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I beleive that if the entire paragagh is quoted there would be an explantion of why it was there... I beleive it affords the parlimentarian to make statements that cannot be made else where under the law.. </div></div>
Wahalla, with all due respects, I know why it was there. The purpose behind the snippet from the rest of the paragraph was for the "literal meaning" of those words. The context in which the words were used in the paragraph, reflects the attitude of Rulers such as George the III during the period... Denial of "justifiable rights" to the people is why they were able to conquer, divide and rule. Rights were for the ruling class not the peasants, Parliament was the domain of the "rulers" and even in this time, the attitude hasn't change much...

We have all heard the expression "freedom from WANT and freedom from FEAR". This spells out the plight of POVERTY and the FEAR of Criminals which is synonimous to basic Denial of "justifiable rights" in Jamaica... When the people are terrified to walk freely at nights, some in their own community because of crime, they are denied their "justifiable rights". The PM, the well connected and others of the "ruling class" are well protected living behind fortified residences, while "the people" are unprotected from well armed thugs, gangs, thieves and murderers roaming their neighborhoods. These denizens answer to no one! not even to their so-called leaders/rulers...
____________________________

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

**Tuff Gong** · 08-28-2008, 05:57 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tuffy Tuffy Tuffy.. He is a yankee.. Dont you know once they say anything it is immidiately true ?????</div></div>

...but you have been here long enough to know that 99% of the Board thinks like he does and they will lie their a%% off to protect the kind of dumb wishy-washy illogic the flows from his.... nether regions!

**Tuff Gong** · 08-28-2008, 06:01 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"To Give the People Justifiable Rights" To me these words depicts what should be the goal of all modern governments, GOJ included. ~ </div></div>
It was a Comrade who said that. One he helped framed the Constitution and in the end was so disgraced and like many Comrades was allowed to renew and come back to enjoy their retirement on the blood of same Jamaicans they had helped to beat dung.

**Tuff Gong** · 08-28-2008, 06:05 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having said that, what is more important to the people of Jamaica that the "right to be relatively free" from the crime wave that has overwhelm us during the last 40 years?

Q, do you think that Jamaica will ever be able to reduce its level of crime to the point where we wont be labelled as #1 in the in the world as we are today? </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 17pt">Very dishonest</span> first off that level of crime has not been in Jamaica over the last forty years. There have been increasing levels of crimes but the crime that brought us to been labeled as the Murder Capital of the World only came about in the last 18 years of the rule of the Comrades.... Blackman Time Now!

And has I hasten to remind us each over those number of years that one of us rose to question what was going on we were lied, to, lied about, maligned and treat lower than dirt.

**Wahalla** · 08-28-2008, 06:53 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

Now I asked where in the constitution that statement was... Because I could not recall reading it.. I had a speed read of it.. did a search and could not find that.. Here are the results of searc on Justifiable...

Now here are the results of the search and here is a link to the constitution.. Please show me where that statement is ...

JAMAICA: Constitution of 1962

http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Jamaica/jam62.html

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(9) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be inconsistent with or in contravention of any provision of this section other than subsection (7) thereof to the extent that the law in question authorises the taking during a period of public emergency of measures that are reasonably justifiable for the purpose of dealing with the situation that exists during that period of public emergency.

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(3) Any person who is arrested or detained-

for the purpose of bringing him before a court in execution of the order of a court; or
upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed or being about to commit a criminal offence, and who is not released, shall be brought without delay before a court; and if any person arrested or detained upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed or being about to commit a criminal offence is not tried within a reasonable time, then, without prejudice to any further proceedings which may be brought against him, he shall be released either unconditionally or upon reasonable question authorises the taking during a period of public emergency of measures that are reasonably justifiable for the purpose of dealing with the situation that exists during that period of public emergency. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (2) Without prejudice to any liability for a contravention of any other law with respect to the use of force in such cases as are hereinafter mentioned, a person shall not be regarded as having been deprived of his life in contravention of this section if he dies as the result of the use of force to such extent as is reasonably justifiable in the circumstances of the case -

for the defence of any person from violence or for the defence of property;
in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully detained;
for the purpose of suppressing a riot, insurrection or mutiny; or
in order lawfully to prevent the commission by that person of a criminal offence, or if he dies as the result of a lawful act of war.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

**Tuff Gong** · 08-28-2008, 07:14 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure Tuffy, I'M talking nonsense.

And to what to you attribute the massive murder rate, drug use, crime in general that is rampant in Jamaica and so low in democratic socialist Cuba? </div></div>
Barbados, Bahamas, St. Lucia, Japan, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, etc…oh you forget, you keep giving the question above questions such as these. That my friend is not a valid answer!

**Tuff Gong** · 08-28-2008, 07:28 PM

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I asked where in the constitution that statement was... Because I could not recall reading it.. I had a speed read of it.. did a search and could not find that.. Here are the results of searc on Justifiable... </div></div>
It was David Coore and he did not make it or cause it to be made in the framing of the Constitution.
He was one of the framers of the Constitution and when the Debate about the Caribbean Court Of Justice aka the Hanging Court vis-à-vis the need or not for a Referenda on Jamaica joining the Court was raging they called on him as one of the so-called experts in Constitutional Law, never mind that he was actually a Consultant to the GOJ on the same issue.

One of the time they called him up he claimed that a Referendum of issues such as that are not needed all that is need is a Parliamentary Majority, when it was pointed out to him that the Constitution stood in the way, he said that could not be so because the Parliament was Supreme and the Constitution gave no such right to the holi poli because to do so would derogate from the Sovereignty of the Parliament...or something along those lines.

The import here was that it was not the holi poli who got Independence from Britain but it was the Parliament itself and they could do damn well whatever they please.

Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

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